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Changes: Goldie

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Annie [00:00:00] Welcome to Changes. It's Annie Macmanus here with a really special episode for you. My guest this week is Goldie. He is first and foremost a music DJ and producer, but he's also a really successful graffiti artist and actor. Instantly recognisable for his shaved head and his gold grills, he has permeated so many different layers of culture at this point, from nightclubs to TV reality shows, to movies, dating everyone from Bjork to Naomi Campbell, he's kind of an institution in his own right. Goldie started out as a graffiti artist, living for a spell in America before coming back to London in the early nineties and discovering jungle and drum and bass music. It was one night where he finally got into the nightclub rage in London for the first time, after trying for a few months, that everything changed for him. 

Goldie [00:00:55] It made me feel fucking amazing. It just made me feel, I have to do this. I want to be that. You know, hearing this music and seeing, you know, the silhouette of a DJ playing it. The mystery of Fabio & Grooverider, all of this amazing sound. 

Annie [00:01:12] Well, it's safe to say that Goldie did it. He not only immersed himself in the sound and the culture around drum n bass, but he elevated it massively. In 94', he launched the now legendary music label, Metal Heads, with the DJ duo Chemistry and Storm. Chemi being his girlfriend at the time, who then later tragically died in a car accident. In 1995, his album Timeless went to number seven in the UK charts, selling a quarter of a million copies and revolutionising drum and bass music. For me as a 17 year old girl in Dublin, Timeless was a completely alien sound. I had genuinely never heard anything like it. It was so enticing and mysterious and thrilling and it kind of represented a whole other world. It made me curious for what was out there beyond suburban south Dublin. It kind of contributed to me wanting to discover England. Goldie was born Clifford Joseph Price in Walsall in 1965. His mother was Scottish, his father Jamaican. He was raised in children's homes in the West Midlands and by foster families since the age of four, where he was physically and sexually abused. Something which he discusses in this episode so please be aware if this could be triggering for you. He now lives in Thailand with his wife and his youngest daughter. I think he has five children in total. He loves to go trekking in the jungle. He is mad about yoga and still completely immersed in music and culture as you will hear. Such an honour to have this time with Goldie. Welcome to Changes. *Drum n bass music plays*. Goldie, this conversation is all about change, but can I start by asking why you decided to call yourself or how you got the name Goldie? 

Goldie [00:03:09] Well, when hip hop came, the culture of hip hop for me was seeing the culture of hip hop. I saw these videos and we used to sample videos from Gladys Knight and the Pips or Malcolm McLaren, and we'd see Rock Steady Crew and we'd see graffiti in the background. And I was always fascinated with, you know, the culture of it. I gravitated more towards the art because I loved art and graffiti was the thing. Before that, my whole family when I'd kind of left the care system, went to Wolverhampton. My brother and all of my kind of stepbrothers all had dreads and I kind of had to follow suit. So, you know, you're kind of getting beeswax and waxing your hair and, you know, wearing caps and stuff and I realised very, you know, after a couple of years, that I couldn't spit on my head with dreadlocks because they didn't wear that well. So I ended up cutting my hair and having one loc *laughs*. 

Annie [00:03:59] Wow. 

Goldie [00:04:00] Because it was Goldilocks and then it was just, it just ended up being Goldie. One lock. And it's just Goldie *laughs*.

Annie [00:04:06] I always thought it was from the grillz. 

Goldie [00:04:08] No, I wasn't at all, that came later. Much later. It was because we were in a crew called West Side Crew and we all had our name on our Adidas green tracksuit and mine was Goldilocks. And then I just ended up not having the locks there anymore, just became Goldie. And then of course, everyone's like, you know, I kind of start getting the gold after that. 

Annie [00:04:26] Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get straight into the first question which is about your childhood change. You mentioned being in the care system. You mentioned your family. You've had just a mad like first half of your life. So colourful, highs, lows, all of it. But do you mind bringing us through the biggest change that you went through as a child that you think? 

Goldie [00:04:47] Well, the biggest change really was, I guess music was always my solace because I went through a lot of abuse being young in the care system, which is unfortunate. But, you know, the older I got, the more I realised I was not the only one *laughs*. Do you know what I mean? You almost feel like, 'I'm the only one!' and you start playing this really small violin. Yes, all this stuff happened, but that was the biggest change because it really upset my natural path of growing up as a child. It's only disturbing when you look back on it, really, and it starts to affect your adult life so to speak, like getting a girlfriend and being normal. Which is kind of why we share a very strong interest and I think Gabor Maté has been an amazing- In modern times, along with Sam Harris who is another great, great mind of modern times. That really helped me a lot, especially on the back of what I'd gone through and understanding that I wasn't to blame for a lot of the trauma. But you see that- it pushed me into this thing of music where the music became something different. I always loved music, all kids love music. I don't care what it is. But I think being in the care system and being in the homes in particular, when I was moved around, I found music was the place I'd run to and I'd lock myself away listening to music. But we'd have like half an hour on the stereo every weekend when all the kids went back to their kind of broken families or whatever they went back to. And there was a certain amount of kids left inside the home. So it was kind of almost like a skeleton crew of people that were working at the children's home. And we'd have a stereo every week to play music for half an hour, and I'd go to a record shop called Ruby Red's in Wolverhampton, where I used to rollerskate because skating was my passion. I used to live on skates. For about five years I lived on quads. That was my thing. And I think I'd ran away. I'd finally had the balls to run away from this children's home because everyone ran. Everyone. There was always runners. Everyone. 

Annie [00:06:49] That was just a pattern. People just did that? 

Goldie [00:06:51] It was a thing like, you know, 'they've run, they've run!'. And we'd be counting the days of how long it's gonna take them to get caught. And you see the police car turn up and all the kids run to the windows, then the kid walks out the car and walks down the driveway and they get sent straight into the office. We have to exit the hallway into the playroom and then there'd be- you see them of this walk of shame back to their room, which they were banished for a couple of weeks. And then as soon as they integrated it was like, what was it like?! *laughs*.

Annie [00:07:17] What did you see! 

Goldie [00:07:17] What did you see!

Annie [00:07:19] Yeah, yeah.

Goldie [00:07:20] You know, and it became this thing and I'd never got round to doing it. And then I finally did run, but of course I just ran back to my skating rink. It wasn't going to be very hard to find me *Annie laughs*. So I found a really mixed bag of music. And the main song for me was The Logical Song, that Supertramp. That changed my life that song, because lyrically it was- 

Annie [00:07:43] What are the lyrics? 

Goldie [00:07:45] Err, 'When I was young and life was so wonderful, so beautiful. What would you say if he was calling me a radical?'. You know, it was the idea of this speaking to your soul, you know, it's about me this record is! And I guess that's what a great record is, isn't it? A great song is something that touches you in such a way. And it was this idea of freedom that this song had gave me, and it was conscious. 

Annie [00:08:12] *Song plays* *When I was young it seemed that life was so wonderful. A miracle. Oh it was beautiful, magical*. It's interesting that first line, 'when I was young and life was so beautiful' like as a child, did you find beauty in life? Was there parts of it that you found beauty in? 

Goldie [00:08:31] *Sighs* well there was because I'd always been an oddity and been at odds with myself. So in my normal everyday life, I've got to say, it was fucking miserable. I had a fucking miserable- I had a miserable time growing up. 

Annie [00:08:47] So you were in care from 4 years old? Up until you were 17 pretty much.

Goldie [00:08:49] From 4 years old. Up until I was 17, yeah. So I'd move to about- I was in four homes, three foster homes. It didn't work. And the abuse started when I was in- I can't name them, but I was there and the sister was adopted and I was fostered and she started on me when I was about, I think it was about seven she started on me. She was about 17, 18 and it was just became really abusive and it was kind of like, don't say anything or you're going to go back to the home. And I was terrified. And of course it got more and more and it became this thing where the rejection. You know, why is this person coming to me just at night-time? *Laughing* when everyone's asleep, do you know what I mean? And I'd have to go into their room and it was sneaking around. It was horrible. It's a horrible experience. 

Annie [00:09:43] And the parents had no idea what was going on because they were your foster parents. 

Goldie [00:09:45] No, well they were like, they were, you know, a religious family. I don't know, whatever the hell they were. And it became this- it just became this horrible thing. And to be honest, I loved music, though. And I'd got into music and it was the one thing I had that was good. But yeah, it was pretty miserable. I also felt that when I was in the home and started talking to other kids, they'd all been through a lot of stuff. I was always to be the joker in the class, like Smokey Robinson, tears of a Clown. I became that. 

Annie [00:10:18] Were you shy like- and in the homes as well. Were you a shy person? Did you kind of stay in the shadows or were you like right in the middle of things? 

Goldie [00:10:23] I was in the shadows but I was I was bullied a lot. So I became the kind of- if you're going to join the gang you gotta let us give you a kick in at the end of the night. To GBH police oppression. Yeah! You know, you got to be part of the gang. You know, you got to take a smack in the face. Yeah, you gotta take the piss out of him. So you kind of found your place in this kind of little punky gang I found. And then you just get beat the fuck up, or you just- you ended up being the guy who everyone turns on the end of the night when they've had a few beers. 

Annie [00:10:50] Right. 

Goldie [00:10:50] You know what I mean. So it got me crazy for me. And then still kind of finding my feet, but then you find your clan. You then find your place in it. I always had to be the kid that went home early because obviously you got to get back to a certain curfew. But then you had a sense of community inside the home. And there were some good moments like, my waypoint. I have waypoints. I have this idea of- 

Annie [00:11:17] Whats a waypoint?

Goldie [00:11:18] A waypoint, like a ship has a waypoint. This ship's going in one direction and it hits a waypoint and that changes the direction of this person's life. And for me, like, you know, I know every word to Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band because that album, it was an eight track going to Derbyshire, camping with the kids. And it was the best holiday ever, camping and this really Freudian sense of beans being cooked on a stove outside with bacon and being cold, you know, just outside in a sleeping bag but warm inside. And going out and walking across the sand dunes and, you know, making your way through Derbyshire, you know, then to Wales and then coming back to Bakewell and all of these amazing places. There was this mixed bag of kids that were all from different backgrounds. So my musical background became Steel Pulse, UB40, you know, Cat Stevens, you know, The Supremes, you know, Miles Davis. All this music came to me over the years, but it was so multicultural my music background.

Annie [00:12:20] Of course, yes. 

Goldie [00:12:20] I used to work at a Saturday morning garage in Willenhall. You know, when the boss was away we were making these fake guitars with plywood and welding rods because it was a garage. And after the boss went out, we'd turn up the stereo, you know, this kind of cassette player, and we'd play Rattus Norvegicus from the beginning to end. So I was a little bit of a punk, a little bit of an upstart. Finding out Bob Marley was mixed race blew my mind. It blew my mind. I was thinking, he's not black he's only mixed race! And that blew my mind because I thought it's like me but it was weird thoughts of- I remember my father taking me from my mother's house. He took me, kidnapped me and took me to London. 

Annie [00:13:02] What age would you have been, sorry to interrupt. 

Goldie [00:13:04] I would have been about four or five. I'd have been about four at this point. It was the kind of reason why I'd gone back in care because I was with my mum. She was doing different things. It wasn't working out. I was left alone for long periods of time. My dad had found me somewhere and took me and I always remember sitting in the car with the kind of one bench seat as opposed to separate seats which was weird. And these memories come flooding in of him on the motorway and taking his hands off the wheel and clapping his hands. And we're listening to music on the radio. And I was thinking, he's driving no handed! It was just freaking me out as a kid. But these thoughts and memories of all this music coming in to my cortex is weird and wonderful stuff. There are these musical moments that are directing my life and, you know, being put into a room while I was being processed and finding Logical Song on a gramophone, of which I'd pull the arm down and kept playing over and over again crying my eyes up. And then the matrons coming in and my social work, who I really liked at the time, Miss O'Connor, she was my kind of pillar of strength of like, she felt normal, like normal to me. But in a strange place. And being dragged out of this room and being taken to my room, which really freaked me out. But then moving to Hammer, which, well I'd heard John Holt for the first time. You know, all these weird and wonderful songs that became- that kind of galvanised my mind- one in particular that really stood out was Judie Tzuke, Stay With Me Till Dawn. The backend quartette string arrangement on Judie Tzuke, I think was really responsible for me getting into chord arrangement with timers even. 

Annie [00:14:44] Wow, I wonder what it is about the human mind that in those first kind of formative years from like 0 to 10, those memories kind of dictate the rest of your life. Like, you're so much more sponge like. I suppose there's less in there so everything that comes in is more powerful to impact you. It feels like music, you know, as you say, that's such a lovely way of putting it. Those waypoints, it's kind of like, it's like your compass. It kind of helped you through. 

Goldie [00:15:13] You talked about the brain and how those formative years, yes they do shape the entire life. And I think that, when I look at the work of Gabor Maté and really go into that, it is so true because you think these records have impacted me and I never thought I was ever going to make music. That was something that was so far beyond me. Even though I had such passion and love for music, it was only in- I never wrote my first song till I was 27. 

Annie [00:15:41] But you made you made art. I suppose that's a thing like thinking about you, reading about you, reading your story of your life. You're a true innovator. You know, this podcast is about change. You're an artist in that whatever medium you pick up, whether it's a spray can, whether it's a, you know, an 808, whether you know, whether it's a piece of clay that you sculpt, you're coming at it from a place where you are creating something and changing that, you know, changing something. I don't know. It's really hard to describe. 

Goldie [00:16:11] It's alchemy.

Annie [00:16:12] It's alchemy. It's alchemy. That's what I want to talk about. Alchemy. Yes. 

Goldie [00:16:15] Well, it's alchemy. I've always had the idea- because I got involved in the arts and I understood. I know it sounds really weird to people that might not know this, you know, this thing that people call Graffito, which is from Latin, Graffito. The idea of putting your mark on society. 

Annie [00:16:32] Yeah. 

Goldie [00:16:33] Dogs have always pissed on lamposts. Territorial. Leaving your markings. You know this isn't new. You know, the Greek philosophy, the idea of leaving your mark. The media just changed, the medium that we use has just changed, that's all. And I'd learnt from these early ideas of getting into Goldsmithing and- I always thought to myself, I was fascinated with melting gold. 

Annie [00:16:55] I have it here. I have what you've written about it in your book and I find this bit so powerful, and it says- what you're talking about melting gold to make grills. And you said, 'knowing I could change the structure of something precious that was seemingly so solid and unchangeable, led me to believe that I might also have the power to melt some of the hardened feelings inside myself, which had fused and melded together in the crucible of the darker times of my childhood, and maybe reshape them into something more positive. The awareness stirred inside me that I had the power to shape the world around me for the better'. Boom. 

Goldie [00:17:32] I know. Boom. I know. I can't remember that, but yeah. 

Annie [00:17:35] It's beautiful. 

Goldie [00:17:36] Yes. 

Annie [00:17:36] It makes so much sense, I think when you read that. The idea of being able to break something down and build it up into something different, you know.

Goldie [00:17:44] Well I felt that with the music is that people- my approach, you know, we'd had this great- jungle and drum n bass has been, again, the underdog of the country and the world for such a long time. The bottom rutt of the electronic ladder it was, it was always seemed to. I'd work this- the alchemy inside of the culture and then thought well my contribution to that would be to understand that I can take roughage, all of these topline bits and pieces of songs that I like, like Japan, bit of David Sylvian. And embrace that within this structure of music and of course, that's why the label was created. Metal Heads is an idea that, you know, the skull- music will be here long after we've gone, the headphones, music will be here long after we're gone. You know, we live and die within the music. And also wanting to create a platform for artists to be able to do what they want to do within their own alchemy. So that's always been a very important thing for me. And of course, it took a lot of people a long time to catch up. There's always this thing that people look to drum n bass as this disposable kiddie music. But yet, I always felt it was the uncle under the stairs that no one wants to invite to the barbecue because you're gonna tell the kids what it's like *Annie laughs*. Don't bring uncle Goldie, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't bring uncle Shy FX because he's going to just tell everyone *Annie laughs*. You know what I mean. No, no, no don't bring Dillinger, we don't want Dillinger we want something softer, you know? It was this thing that we- we were doing this stuff that we loved with a passion, and we wanted an environment to play it in. 

Annie [00:19:12] You were doing it always from the start, doing it differently, and you listen back to your albums now and fucking hell, man. They're so raw. They're so raw. Like listening to them in the context of reading your books and understanding your life and then listening to the albums, you put so much more into them. You were paying into them. You know, you have these big, huge, ambitious, you know, orchestral arrangements, you know, so much more than what jungle was I think at the time. I don't want to speak for the whole of jungle, but it felt any way that you brought a different slant to it. 

Goldie [00:19:49] We're telling a story and this is our story, you know, Mother is not an easy feat. 

Annie [00:19:54] It's not an easy feat. 

Goldie [00:19:55] I don't expect anyone out there to be a fan of it.

Annie [00:19:59] You needed to make that record. You needed to make it. We should specify for the listeners that Mother is how long, as a track?

Goldie [00:20:05] Mother is one hour long. 

Annie [00:20:06] One hour long? Yeah. 

Goldie [00:20:08] Well, the whole point of that record was to deal with pure alchemy, the universe, conception, all of that stuff. *Part of record plays*

Annie [00:20:54] Goldie, can we talk about the 90s? 94', Metal heads was started. 95', Timeless came out. 96', you're going out with Bjork. 98', Saturnz Return with Mother on it. That was a fucking busy decade for you. 

Goldie [00:21:12] Me and Scotty call them the golden years. It is the perfect Polaroid. 

Annie [00:21:16] I mean, you were really, really famous. I mean, you still are but like in the nineties it must have been a very peak. 

Goldie [00:21:21] Well, the nineties was crazy because, you know, the whole Bjork thing was crazy. Yeah, the paparazzi were outside the house every day and all this madness and craziness. But remember, you got to put it to context, man. When Timeless won the award for the Mobo's, when the Mobo's award looked like it was something that was given away a fucking bingo sale *Annie laughs*. Yeah, it was like something you got as an award when you'd won a race when you were five at the local primary school, right. And you got two Mo's, Best Dance Album, right, Best Jungle Act, well there's only a few anyway. But you're up against George Michael, Destiny's Child, Jamiroquai. Timeless. It's so weird. 

Annie [00:22:01] It's so weird. 

Goldie [00:22:03] At that point. But I think that that's what was great about it, being so far in. But you see, it was the catalyst. Every person took the chequebook out for this music, you know, everyone got- anyone that was on the label- 

Annie [00:22:16] So it got passed down. So a lot of other people won from Timeless winning. 

Goldie [00:22:20] Grooverider always puts it like this, he always says 'you put a lot of food on alot of tables for a lot of people'. 

Annie [00:22:25] I remember there's a story actually that he says, is it him or is it Fabio saying that there was a wedding and they don't specify whose wedding, but there was a wedding. 

Goldie [00:22:33] *Laughing* I know who it was. 

Annie [00:22:33] And it was a car park full of the most incredible cars, and they were like, well, drum n bass is doing good. Jungle's doing good. 

Goldie [00:22:41] *Laughing* Yeah, there was a time when we all we were all driving Ferraris and being nutters and being crazy. I remember that time. 

Annie [00:22:47] Goldie, can we go back to like, the man behind the music for a bit? So, the nineties we know was bonkers. On a professional level, like just so successful, on a creative level so inspiring. But what about on a personal level? 

Goldie [00:23:02] Well, on a personal level, I think I did more drugs than Al Pacino. I think definitely. I think I'd opened a Pandora's box. I mean, my you know, my addiction came through, you know, this want of something that I couldn't have. 

Annie [00:23:15] When did you know? 

Goldie [00:23:17] I was fucked. When did I know? When you're sitting in the fucking- sitting there at six in the morning, no drug dealers answering their phone. You know, it was crawling around on your hands and knees trying to find drugs or whatever you've hid them in. And I've realised it was, it was too much for me. It was just way too much. 

Annie [00:23:31] So was it constant? Was it every weekend like? 

Goldie [00:23:33] Oh, every night. I remember, I mean, I remember the peak of my addiction. I think I was doing like three, four row of hypnol a night with a litre bottle of vodka, and three row of hypnol, four row of hypnol to try and get back to sleep. 

Annie [00:23:46] To knock out. 

Goldie [00:23:47] Oh yeah. To drink and knock out. Yeah. And an eighth of gear. Trust me, I'd done everything. And then I just got so sick of it all because it's just something that you can't satisfy. And I think that's because there's a lot of stuff, there's a lot of unanswered stuff and it's only Saturnz Return, and Saturnz Return got crucified by the media. 

Annie [00:24:09] So that was the album that had Mother on it, which is the opening track which was an hour long.

Goldie [00:24:13] It is my black opera, it is my thing. I think that that album took a lot of flack, but I knew the minute I stepped in or stepped out of the closet with that record, you know, to say that I'm an addict and to say that I'm all of these things, but this is prolific, you know, that album had KRS-One, Noel Gallagher, David Bowie, you know, it was a big- 

Annie [00:24:35] Did it get the reception you wanted? 

Goldie [00:24:37] No, it didn't. But I knew it wouldn't until many years later. It just went like- it won some crazy awards in Paris, you know, like four years ago, people recognised that it was rereleased and-  but the thing is, is that you have to understand, man. I'm pre-internet. It doesn't bother me. There's certain albums that you realise that were released by the greats, probably didn't get the same. 

Annie [00:24:59] In my opinion, true artistry is this kind of fearlessness and this kind of real commitment to self-expression regardless of other people's opinions. You have to express this pure emotion, pain, whatever it is you were going through. You have to put that into that record. It had to exist at that time. That's the point of making art. 

Goldie [00:25:18] It's my job to upset the avant card. It's my job to make that vibration in the water that you might not be able to see those patterns in that water yet. I've grown up in this music, so I get to do what the fuck I want and say what I want. *music plays*

Annie [00:25:41] I wanted to ask about, you know, the idea of tribes and music giving you tribes, graffiti giving you tribes, hip hop culture giving you tribes, but also coming from children's homes where they, as you say, you are always around a group of people. Do you feel like you're kind of path in life has led you to always be part of these kind of chosen families? 

Goldie [00:25:59] Hmm. Yeah, that's a very Freudian one. 

Annie [00:26:02] Yeah, that's my terrible card psychology. 

Goldie [00:26:04] No but I like it. It's good psychology and, you know, and *Yoda voice* mmm powerful she's becoming. I believe strongly that no man is an island. And trust me, I've been lonely in addiction where no one understands you and gets it. Going down the rabbit hole and being, you know, through there and then finding better healers, whether it's ayahuasca or different things that kind of bring you to the mother, and bring you to this place of understanding. That's the difference. But tribes have always been in my life. They've always been like New York. And finding a group of people that have got broken families. Oh, I'm not the only one! Great. And I'm thinking, my mum was this and mine was- Well, their mum is all the same. Oh, actually, my dad's on crack. Really? Yeah, yeah, he got caught, he got arrested for doing angel dust. Yeah and we're out here on the street and we're painting trains, it's like wow, I thought i had it rough. You know what I mean? So I've always done that and I think reinforced, you know, going there and seeing these guys. And I'm saying, guys, the clubs are playing the music! Ahh fuck it G, I don't really want to go out. Well I'll go out for you, give me the riz, give me the dubplate. I'll go. I've created that pathway. I've always had this thing about creating tribes. The label was a tribe, a melting pot of ideas I like to call it, you know, just have all of this wonderful music together and share the sound. And Metal Head's has this sound. And it's probably the only one left that stayed intact and it's, you know, we've never kind of been a major player, really, in terms of selling to a major. But tribalism is the key. 

Annie [00:27:37] You're finding your own identity within it, right? It's a way to help shape yourself in the world. You know, I'm just thinking of you, young you listening to Bob Marley for the first time finding out he's mixed race. It's kind of that, isn't it? It's like there's people out there like me. There's people out there. 

Goldie [00:27:52] The thing you said about tribalism, it's been a very strong point of it. And I think DnB became it's own tribe because for so long DnB was so- isn't it mad when you listen to DnB now, it's what we were doing 25 years ago with a nice little sample on the top of it because we were so far ahead of it. But it's the passion of the music that people love, it's the energy that DnB gives people. It's like you can't beat British passion for this music. I remember my daughter playing me something going, dad I'm at a rave! And they're playing this tune. It was a rip off of erm *taps table* of Pendulum. And I'm like, let me play you the original *Annie laughs*. 

Annie [00:28:35] I love that, Goldie's your dad. No. You need to hear the original. 

Goldie [00:28:38] Yeah, yeah. And it's great because I mean, it's not like they're coming in on the back of- dad listen to this, I went out on the way to this party and there's this Diana Ross tune. You know, they're going out and it's DnB.

Annie [00:28:50] Yeah, that's great. It's a good starting point. The starting point is DnB. 

Goldie [00:28:53] I mean, there's a girl from Game of Thrones out raving at you know, Fabric. And Maisie's out there loving it. Everyone loves this music. People recognise what we've done and they're finally going, you know, Metal Head's has been this thought warp thing. And you always say, go back to you, but this is me. *Music plays*.

Annie [00:29:39] I want to talk about the adult change. And you talked about that point in the nineties where you realised that the addiction was consuming your life and it was taking too much of you. How did you change? Look at you now. You are the picture of health. 

Goldie [00:29:53] Ah thank you haha. 

Annie [00:29:53] Yeah, you are a yoga, passionate yoga guy. Meditation. Like you seem so happy. You've got your lovely daughter. You've got your wife in Thailand. How have you transformed your life? 

Goldie [00:30:05] It took a long time. I mean, it took a long time. The yoga was the crack. That was what cracked it for me. 

Annie [00:30:11] What was it about yoga? 

Goldie [00:30:13] Because it's like a club. It's hot. You know, it's a room. It's heavy, but especially hot yoga for me. But I guess. I guess going by the fundamental issue of it, I love Bikram because it was, you know, it's like turning my body left and right, backwards and forwards, like a sponge. It's rinsing it out and I'm sweating loads and it's really hot and it's 40 to 44 degrees. It's baking hot and there's a mirror there and I get to see the ugly version of me. 

Annie [00:30:41] You talk about it in your book where you say, the first couple of times you couldn't- you had to walk out. 

Goldie [00:30:46] I walked out. 

Annie [00:30:46] Because emotionally what was going on. 

Goldie [00:30:48] It's emotion, it's just too much. 

Annie [00:30:49] But what does it do to you emotionally? 

Goldie [00:30:52] It just brings up a lot of feelings. It just started bringing up a lot of stuff. 

Annie [00:30:56] Right. 

Goldie [00:30:57] You know, especially with men. Backward bends for men, for example, it's a fact. It's a science guys that men bending backwards, they just don't like it. I always find bending backwards would cause me to cry because you're opening up and you don't know what the future holds. And if you couldn't, you know, it's the idea of commitment is funny, you know, going into the unknown. Right. But there's also the idea, you know, there's some great yogis I've worked with, but the simplest postures, baby pose, I can't do because I have to be into a ball. Right. But this is because of the trauma in the foetus. 

Annie [00:31:36] Yeah. So it's triggering to you as a baby. 

Goldie [00:31:40] Being in my mother's belly for nine months while she drank and got beat up and kicked around and hearing, it traumatises me. I can't roll to a ball. I can't.

Annie [00:31:52] Still. Isn't that incredible. The power of your head on your body. 

Goldie [00:31:57] Yeah, well, that's the power of the head on the body. But also that's why, Mother, if you have the time to listen to Mother, that first 5 minutes and 6 minutes is about gas, air and water, which is the universe. But then when you start to hear water, the sound of water is when you're conceived within the womb. And that water becomes your holding space. You are held in water, okay. 

Annie [00:32:24] Yes. 

Goldie [00:32:25] Then there's another five or 6 minutes where you start to hear water and then you'll hear ignition. You start to hear flames and gas circulating, which is the idea of composition of your own body being made up. And growth, like fingernails begins to appear. The feotus eyes begin. I mean, for me as a conceptual piece, is beyond me. But it's what's come from all of the traumatic experience. It's like the idea of experiencing the trauma, understanding where it comes from is how I survived it. Was by looking at these things and latching on to, I'm not broken, I'm just fixing myself because I kind of needed to go through this. And, you start to find these things.

Annie [00:33:09] So it's the idea of knowing that you can be fixed. 

Goldie [00:33:13] Yeah. It's knowing that you, you have the power to do it. You have the power to be able to fix yourself because no one else is going to do for you. Like, you know, I choose the wrong birds. You know, people got the same shit as me. I've got to deal with their baggage and fucking mine. Just. Just get. Just get out your sys- You got to break it, and I think. I think the Hoffman process was another massive change. 

Annie [00:33:36] Can you tell us about that, please? Yeah. 

Goldie [00:33:38] Yeah. The Hoffman process was really the next big change because the Hoffman you know, I became an ambassador along with Thandi Newton actually, who I didn't know for a long time was-. 

Annie [00:33:48] Well, i didn't know that either. 

Goldie [00:33:49] Yeah, Thandi's been an ambassador for them for a long time. 

Annie [00:33:52] And Patrick Cox, who's on this podcast this week, he quotes that as the one thing to have saved him. 

Goldie [00:33:57] Yeah. Well, you know, that's crazy. I mean, that's what I think. And I think, look, we're all made up of these things that are inside the box, what the Hoffman does is takes everything outside the box and then goes, yeah, these are the things that are inside the box. But then dismantles the box and says, how was the box made? 

Annie [00:34:17] But how does it do that, Goldie? Like, it's not that long that you're in there, is it? It's soemthing like ten days. 

Goldie [00:34:21] No, it's not. No, it's not. But I can't tell you because he's ---. 

Annie [00:34:25] Oh, its a secret? Oh interesting.

Goldie [00:34:27] But it's not- people kind of made it like very cultish. Like, as soon as I got out there I was like right I'm getting divorced. That's it, great. I married my mom. 

Annie [00:34:34] So you had clarity. 

Goldie [00:34:36] Clarity. Complete clarity. I realised this wasn't right and I had married my mother and I was- I married someone who was never going to love me in the way that I wanted to be loved, ultimately. 

Annie [00:34:44] Or that you needed to be loved. 

Goldie [00:34:45] Yeah, because you always find this idea of needing to be loved. And then I feel like Hoffman's very important because it challenges these things that you would not dare challenge. And you write a set of exercises and you come and do all of this stuff. And it's a lot of physicality that happens in there, which is pretty intense, you know, of the screaming and the beating and the, you know, of objects. You know, modern times take modern things. And the Hoffman kind of rode that wave of understanding that societies changing, it's vibrating differently. 

Annie [00:35:21] Right. Okay. Why did it work for you? 

Goldie [00:35:23] I think it worked for me in a way that I understood the empathy of my mother and father. 

Annie [00:35:28] Right. 

Goldie [00:35:28] I understood that my mother was 12 and she was getting beaten by her dad and she became an alcoholic because of a deadbeat. And she ran away from home and every time she came back, he beat her more. So she ran away to be a pub singer. So she was a kid at one point. So I forgot that, you know, I always blamed my mother for putting me into care. I always blamed her for doing that. Deep down she went, It's my first son, I need to get him as far away from me as possible. Listen, it's not just one thing that's going to make us, because all of this stuff that gave us our trauma in life wasn't just one thing. It wasn't just somebody fucking did that to you just once. 

Annie [00:36:14] No it's a system. It's a system, isn't it? 

Goldie [00:36:17] They repeatedly abuse you. They repeatedly put you there. They did all these different things. I was really angry with males. Anyone that was in power, system, I was always angry because you know, you're sucking dick in a fucking Wendy house with these- but I can't see their faces. So you can't blame anyone. So you blame all older males that have authority. This person is responsible for me. And they're fucking abusing me. So I had a real bad- I had a hard time with the system. Anyone that will tell you that fucking police and fucking anyone who's in a uniform. I'd have a really difficult time with. Homophobic for years. Really badly because- I don't- all my fucking mates are gay, d'you know what I mean because, you know, I shared a room at the Hoffman with a guy that was gay and I was like, 'I'm going to change my room. I can't stay in here!'. I had the best time. So we were like 2 naughty school boys that had to be told, guys you got to be quiet, because we would laugh. I got to know this person in another way, because they knew when you, you know, I filled out these forms of what my fears were, I had to be really honest and because of all the abuse and it's like well this isn't this guy. This isn't his story. This is me again with my narrative, me, me, me, me, my narrative. Change the fucking narrative, man. Well, you know, so the idea of changing the narrative and especially Gabor Maté whose idea of changing narrative, which is for me, the idea that you've got to look at these other stories. This isn't just about you. And if you can unravel a bit of that, you can have this empathy. So understanding- your thing has just been something that you wasn't even allowed to process yet. That's all. And so the idea of allowing myself to just turn up. Just go and just being yoga and turn up. And then I started to cry a lot and see the ugly me. And these layers started falling away. And also being occupied by these set of 26 moves, 26 boxes twice, just to put me through the paces to have this regimented thing, because the regiment was good for me, because I was always against any type of regime. 

Annie [00:38:18] Yes. Yes. Do you know what I mean, so-

Annie [00:38:20] Yeah. Because you grew up in a system of rules. 

Goldie [00:38:21] But it's very important that we step back. There's one quote, and the quote is, 'I've made so many mistakes in my life that have brought me here. Thinking about making a few more' *laughs, you know. So the only idea is that, you know, these things that you think might be, you know, not good for us all of a sudden, you know, these moves that we listen to our heart and we go and do these other things that are different, like the Hoffmann or- we need to change the narrative and do something different with ourselves. And the mistakes that were made earlier on just led me to this place. So it's about us getting out of survival mode also. I'm a good survivor. 

Annie [00:39:02] Oh, my God. 

Goldie [00:39:03] I could survive. But I don't want to be a survivor anymore. 

Annie [00:39:06] No, you want to be a thriver. You want to do- yeah. 

Goldie [00:39:08] Want to be a thriver, not a survivor. *music plays*.

Annie [00:39:39] Goldie. So last question we always ask is, you know, clearly you are making changes all the time and constantly working on yourself. But is there a change that you would still like to see within how you live your life moving forwards? 

Goldie [00:39:52] You know, I'm-

Annie [00:39:54] And if not with you, with the world around you. 

Goldie [00:39:56] I think it's good to get yourself off social media for a little while. I think it's good to be able to switch off, I think like try and treat it with that aspect of can you? That's a question I ask people. Can you put your phone down for a week? Because I can. 

Annie [00:40:10] Will you keep Dj'ing, Goldie? How you feeling about that? About being out there on the road. Do you think you'll keep doing it? I thought I'd stop when I was 40 and I'm still going. I always wonder when. 

Goldie [00:40:22] Yeah, I always say to Scottie, I'm going to stop. And I just did these six in America, these six gigs. And the summer was insane. I just think maybe another year. 

Annie [00:40:33] *Laughs loudly* I'll be talking to you in ten years, you'll be saying that. 

Goldie [00:40:35] No, but these six were fucking good, man. I mean, I shouldn't do it but I played at Houston and I was booked for 90 minutes and I played for 4 hours. I mean. 

Annie [00:40:44] There's your sign.

Goldie [00:40:45] Well there's my sign, init. There's so much great music and there's so much amazing DnB here at the moment. There really is. I don't get sick of it in that sense. I love the label. I love the music. I love the fact that I can go back. I can be a time traveller. I can go back and forth in time with a set. I've never mixed music at home. I swear on my daughter's life. I never mix music at home and say, this is the set I'm going to play out tonight? I know what the first three tunes are and that's it. And the rest I'm just going to, do that. 

Annie [00:41:15] Goldie, thank you. Thank you so much for this. It's been epic. It's been fascinating. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom and your story. Thank you. *Music plays*

Annie [00:41:39] Let us know what you thought of Goldie. If you want to read his memoirs, there are two out there. Both excellent I have to say. One from 2003 called Nine Lives Goldie. And the latest from 2017 is called All Things Remembered. It's really clever because it kind of- the book is structured in the same way that Goldie's thoughts are in that it's quite vignettey stylistically. So there's just different chapters about different periods in his life. But it's not chronological, like a typical memoir, and it makes for a really dynamic read. Go and check that out if you fancy. We'll put a link to that in the show notes. And also, obviously like it's been such a joy revisiting Goldie's music for this episode, but go and check his music. He's still making phenomenal music. If you listen to my last show on Radio One, you will have heard me play the track I Adore You, which is a really good example of just, you know, how amazing the music is that he's still making. Goldie mentioned some pretty heavy topics here. Remember, if you have been affected by anything raised there is always someone to speak to if you need. You can reach the Samaritans on 116 123 and we'll put helplines in the show notes as well. We mentioned Gabor Maté and Patrick Cox. Those recent episodes are available obviously, if you want to listen back to them at any point. Please don't forget to rate, review, subscribe to Changes. Tell your friends and your family too and we will be back next Monday as always. Changes is produced by Louise Mason through DIN Productions. See you later. *Music plays out*.